Bee and Moriah - PAINTING COMING SOON 

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Have you ever felt unsafe in public due to visible queerness 

 

M- DUH. Anybody who’s queer would be like “duh.” Our existence and presentation kind of challenges society and subverts the nuclear family role. People will project fear onto us that makes us feel unsafe or just threatened. I’ve got countless stories. 

 

B- I am right next to a college campus, so that means you’ve got drunk college boys.They’re more likely to commit violence to a trans woman. I don't walk around at night here. 

 

M- it’s almost like the areas where cis-het folks feel the safest, it's the opposite for us. I used to live in an area that so many people called “sketchy.” Yet going to the grocery store I felt more scared than in my own neighborhood. 

 

What are some of the subtle/passive ways that people have made you unwelcome?

 

B- I think staring is a huge one. Staring, whispering, or sudden bouts of quietness. I’ve seen people in the grocery store change what aisle they’re going down when they see me. That’s a thing. It makes you feel like an “other” basically. 

 

M- I feel like it's another way that i’ve experienced is people getting very- like having no regard to your personal space. They feel like they can just ask you any question. They can get up in your business. Again, at the grocery store, I had my headphones in and there was this guy at the deli who just started asking me all sorts of questions. It’s those little things that aren't direct violence but it's asking too much of you in a space. 

 

Do you find yourself editing your appearance to avoid conflict? 

 

B- My answer would be “not anymore.” I stopped doing that a long time ago, but when I first came out I was super hesitant. I was way more conscious of “If i go to this place, I can get away with wearing this, but if I go to this other place I'm better off looking androgynous.”  As time goes on and I’ve gotten further in my transition I’ve become more comfortable in my own skin and stoppend giving a fuck about what they think at all. In the beginning, I was really hesitant to wear certain things. 

 

M- When I first came out and was in that “ache” phase, I was hesitant to do things. Even things like shop for women's clothing, you get this feeling of “oh, I’m not supposed to do this”

I feel like the liberating aspect of saying ‘fuck it” and doing what you want overrides that over time. At least for me. 

 

B- There's stores that trans girls know you can shop at and be ok with, and there's stores where EVERY trans girl knows DO NOT shop there. Beyond toning down what you’re wearing, you have to keep in mind where you go to get your clothes, depending on the place, you could be treated very badly

 

Where have you found support and community in this area? 

 

M- Back in the day, pre covid, Blush was one of the first spaces that I really felt like I could just exist and be myself. After covid, it wasn't the same crowd that came back. I feel like it's less about the spaces, and more about who’s going there when. Like during homegrown, I know for the most part, I wont get heckled. People are coming out to see performers, lots of people are dressed up. It’s the same for certain areas around halloween. I feel safer then, but really I can’t think of another space since Blush. It's more about when queer folks go mass to a space.

 

B- The couple times I went to blush I thought “This seems like a lot of straight people just getting fucked up.”

 

M- Like going to Bent Paddle during a drag show will be a completely different experience than going during karaoke for a person like me. 

The Main is the place I feel safest at. Me and my partner can just go in and be a normal couple, which is something I think people take for granted. 

 

The queer spaces that do exist are bars, do you think queer people are more at risk for substance abuse? 

 

B- I think that's one of the things I love about deep cuts, it's a place that's queer centric that's not a bar. That’s kind of what people do to hang out, they go and get fucked up, and queer people are already at a higher risk of developing substance abuse, that’s just a fact. I personally have dealt with substance abuse, most of my friends have dealt with substance abuse on some level. There's lots of people I know who have active substance issues that they’re working on. It would be nice if there were more spaces like coffee shops, or any place that doesn't serve booze. I’m at a place where I can go out to the bar and get one drink, but a lot of people aren't. It would be nice to have a place to socialize without drinking. If we had a place like a bookstore, I would spend so much time and money there! That would be so nice. 

 

M- a fucking queer bookstore. You could serve just coffee and that's it and people will still come. 

 

What concerns do you have for queer youth today? 

 

M- So many - meanwhile we literally have places in rural Minnesota where there's like “gun bingo” 

 

B- So many. Where do you even start? Obviously there are legislative concerns. The country is moving backwards. It's actually worse now than it was 20 years ago because 20 years ago a lot of people, even if they were not supportive of trans people they just didn't know a lot about it so they didn't have any strong opinions. Are we at the point where an apartment complex can legally discriminate against a queer person and not provide them housing? Most trans women I know have done a stretch of homelessness, including myself. Even though I’m paying rent now and have my name on the lease, there’s still a feeling of anxiety that the real owners are going to bust through the doors and kick me out. 

 

B- when people say everyone has the same 24 hours.. Well that's true, but how many of those hours did you spend worrying about where you were going to live or what you’re going to eat? Guns, especially since club Q. people have so many strong feelings about us and there’s so many guns in this country. Like I feel at the rate it's going it will be rare to meet someone who hasn’t been affected by gun violence. I feel like instances of mass shootings against queer people are going to continue to grow, with the strong feelings that people hold. 

 

B-When you deny trans kids gender affirming care, you deny them dignity, and that's what makes it life saving. It's someone saying you’re not full of shit, you are who you say you are. That's what estrogen means to me. My estrogen means to me a recognition of: “you are who you say you are.” And you get to live as that person. By taking that away from kids you’re telling them “you don't know who you are.” “I know who you are better than you do.”  And how could that not be depressing? 

 

What kind of support did you need as a youth and did not receive? 

 

M- For me, housing is huge. Consistent housing is what finally  gave me the ability to get my leg up. When you don't have a secure home, It overrides everything.  At the last place I lived, I had 2 months notice to leave. It's a sign of the market how soon I had to leave and how fragile housing is. That was all I could think about until I found my new spot. I didn't give a shit about community, It was hard to even focus. 

 

B- Supportive parents. Like many people, my parents are religious and they have pretty strong feelings as a church about people like me. I could never even think about talking about queerness. I grew up spending so much of my life learning what a terrible thing that could be. Hearing my parents talk about “what would we ever do if our kid was gay?” My first gay friends were in highschool, and I couldn’t tell my parents. They would’ve grounded me for having a gay friends. Because of them shutting me off from that part of the world, I didn't get to see happy queer adults. The trans women I saw on TV were getting assaulted and getting called men on the Jerry Springer show. That was my representation of what queer people were like. I thought “This is what the world is going to do to you if you go outside.” 

 

M- For me, trust. Parents, or any support system that I actually felt like I could talk to about my issues. I had pretty abusive parents, for me the biggest one would be, Someone who I could’ve at least even said “I kind of want to wear a dress.” Those little things, when you’re a kid, from a parent looking down it doesn't seem like that big of a deal, that's how I view it “let the kid try it!” That wasn't ever an option for me. Not only was that stuff not encouraged, it was beaten out of you, verbally beaten out of you. Someone like my fucking self. Just to look at hey, there's someone who’s doing a thing I like. 

I came out when I was 21. In a very saccharine letter sent to my mom, I remember she was not ok with it at first. I was talking with her and she’d say “you never showed any signs!” and I was like yeah, that’s because I was scared of you. You reinforced early on that queerness was not ok, so of course I’m not going to say anything. And she said something that kind of haunts me to this day. She said “I hope you realize it was never because I’m homophobic, it was because I was scared that if you were gay, trans whatever, your life would be that much harder.” In my head I thought  “YOU COULD’VE SAID THAT!” that could’ve been something you said to me and maybe it would’ve bridged that divide at a younger age. I could’ve been spared the years of misery. I could’ve been spared years of living life like I’m in a day dream. My life before I came out feels like a different life. Parents need the courage to say that shit. Say the quiet part loud. 

 

B - Just to see happy queer adults or happy adolescents and think “oh they’re fine and people aren’t being assholes to them.” That would’ve made such a difference. I hope that’s something that's getting better for kids. In duluth at least it seems to be. That’s the silver lining for me amidst all the horrible things going on that people are at least teaching their kids to be kind. I hope they get to see happy queer people being treated normally, because I didn't have that. I would’ve loved to have that and think maybe people will treat me normally one day. 

 

M- It's ironic because my parents and my siblings used to give me shit any time I'd do anything remotely feminine, and they’d call me a feminized version of my dead name. And Im not talking like I put a fucking dress on, Im talking like, I had emotions? That was the thing. Quit being a girl about it. They’re surprised that they didn’t see my transition coming, but it's because they squashed that part of me.

Literally when I was a little kid my best friend in the world was a little girl who lived close to me. When I was 6 they wouldn't let me hang out with her anymore. They said girls and boys don't hang out together. And that was it. Everything was done to cut off any access to any femininity whatsoever. Just let your kid go in whatever direction they want to go in with their gender expression. Don't influence them! Don't be telling kids you need to play with a doll or a truck, just ask them 'what toy do you want’ and whatever they choose say “find do that.” If we could do away with gendered expectations for future kids that would be so huge. 

 

B- What's complicated about gender is that it's both the most and least important thing about me. It tells you absolutely nothing about who I am as a person, to be like: “I’m a woman.” It doesn't tell you anything, but it's simultaneously the most important thing in the world because it affects so heavily how people treat me. How other people perceive my gender is more important than gender itself. 

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